Hello, and welcome to community case studies.
This is a look at how belonging is really built.
I'm your host.
My name is Seth Resler, and I'm from Community Marketing.
And today, we're gonna talk about museum professionals.
My guest is currently the assistant director of engagement and communication in the digital humanities program at Michigan State University.
He teaches in the arts, cultural management and museum of studies program, and he also serves on the board of the museum computer network or MCN.
That is a nonprofit membership organization and professional community for people who work with technology in museums and other cultural heritage.
Institutions.
He's also somebody that I have known since high school, so I wanna welcome.
Welcome Max Evjen.
Hey, Max.
How are you? Hey, you said, too well.
I'm so glad that you're joining me today because I wanna talk about this community of museum professionals that you are involved with.
Tell us a little bit about what the MCN is, who are its members, and what does it do? Okay.
Uh, well, um, NCN, um, I can tell you, um, our our, uh, mission statement is, uh, to grow the digital capacity of museum professionals by connecting them to ideas, information, opportunities, proven practices, and each other.
And, um, yeah, uh, it's it's, it's a membership organization, um, of of individuals who, um, do any kind of technological work in museums.
And really, like, any role that you have in, in any sector, um, is all There are everybody's dealing with digital tools.
Right? So it spans across everything through education, marketing, social media, um, finances, retail.
Um, like, uh, it doesn't really matter.
It's it's it's like anybody using digital tools to accomplish something.
Um, we we share these these, um, ideas and and these these ways that we do the work with each other, um, uh, at an annual conference every year.
Um, and Yeah.
And and, uh, it it's been around since 1967.
Um, it was it was, uh, first, a, um, a bunch of museums, about 50 museums in New York that wanted to have a shared registration database.
And, uh, they were working with somebody at Stonybrook University, um, and they had a mainframe computer at Stonybrook that then had terminals at the museums, and they and people would enter in their registration data.
And that was the museum computer network.
Um, but a few years later, um, that the the the technology changed, of course, and, um, some people up the project, some museums up the project.
Um, but, um, in in in in '68, they started meeting They had a day a day long, um, uh, like symposium about all this museum computer stuff, and they kept meeting every year.
And in fact, we have the, um, the original program from the first museum computer network event.
And it's funny because there's about a half of it that we're still kinda talking about and dealing with.
Let's talk a little bit about the shared mission of your members.
And you touched on this, and and this is something Yeah.
What's so interesting about this organization has been around for a long So I imagine as technology has changed, maybe that shared mission has I I I don't know if changed, but the way that it's applied has changed.
But what are your members trying to get out of it? Why do they come together? Why do they want to be in a group with other people who are doing the same thing? And can you differentiate that from what we might call the business purpose of the organization, which is, you know, the organization that's hosting this, what are the things that they care about that they need to do to keep it running and that they're trying to get out of it, but maybe the members don't necessarily care about.
Yeah.
Well, that's a really interesting question because we just at our most, um, recent in person conference.
Um, we every year, when we have our in person conference, we have an in person board meeting because otherwise throughout the year, the board meets online over Zoom.
Um, and at that in person conference, um, for the last three years, I've been, um, facilitating co facilitating the strategy development for, for the year.
And in this most recent, um, conference that happened in October 2025, we, uh, uh, got to a point where where we stated what our values are, and values in an organization are the things that you see in the outputs.
Right? The things that we see in the community.
Right? Because we're we're all part of the community.
All people on the board are part of the community.
So we we we see and we experience it.
And so we got we went through through, um, uh, through a series of prompts and exercises to get to a point where we could could narrow down our scope to get to, like, these these five, uh, values, um, which we learn, which we, which we, we, stated as, um, community as, um, learning, friendship, collaboration, and inclusiveness.
Like, those are the values, and those are the things that you'll see.
When you go to MCN, you'll see these things.
Um, you really will.
You you you, like, you'll see these these one on one connections that people make.
Um, these friendships that people make, um, in, in, in, in that area.
And we keep seeing, like, people who, um, answer our survey and saying, why is there would be everybody being so nice to me? Right? It we we do make it a very inclusive place.
Like, everybody is just so happy to be there and so happy to to engage in this kind of effort, um, that, um, it it people want to to to give to it and to to make it exceed.
Right? Um, and and I, as a board member, I'm, like, surprised at that sometimes, but then also, like, not surprised at all because, like, I've I'm I'm on a a volunteer position for the board.
In fact, I just re upped for my second, third year term.
So that gives me a sense of the shared mission of the members.
Um, let's talk about the the business purpose from the organization's point of view.
It's a it's a nonprofit organization that is running this.
It is a nonprofit organization.
Uh, right now, we are, um, uh, a working board.
We have no, um, full time staff at all.
Um, there in the past, um, like, when I started going to the conference, there was an executive director, um, and he had worked there for ten years, and then he he he left the organization.
Um, but, uh, and and in in the history of the organization, it's gone from having staff to not having staff.
Having staff to not having staff.
Right.
Like, so it's not really a new thing that we're working for.
Um, it's it it just ebbs and flows.
Got it.
Got it.
That makes sense.
Um, let's talk a little bit about the community space because you're bringing people together the way you are, what you're really doing is creating a space and, uh, that can be an in person space, like what you're doing with the, uh, annual conference that you have.
Um, it can be a digital space.
It could be a combination of the two.
And I think you're using some digital spaces as well.
Can you talk a little bit about what your space looks like, you know, where are your people gathering together? Yeah.
The the board specifically, we we meet on Zoom primarily.
Um, and we have all our all of our all of our board meetings and all of our community meetings are on Zoom.
Um, and we, uh, use Slack to communicate for, like, um, fast short term communication stuff, um, email for slightly longer communication and then base camp for, like, project management and and, um, organizingcom uh, committees and subcommittees and stuff like that.
And these are tools that just the board is using, or are these tools that your members are using to communicate with each other as well? Uh, the Slack everybody you the the the the meet that is a is a place for the community to actually talk to each other there.
And and so there is a a sort of a home of activity that happens on Slack, um, in the general channel, um, and in the conference channel when we have that.
Um, so, um, but it that that also kind of ebbs and flows over the course of the year too.
It's it's very active during the conference, of course.
But, um, uh, you know, it it there's a little bit of a, uh, a home there.
And, like, some of the committees, um, have slack channels and, and, and, if if the, uh, the the specialist groups, rather, there are special interest groups in the organization, and they they have their own channels on, um, on, uh, uh, uh, slack.
And so, um, like, I I'm part of the, um, education and interpretive media.
Special interest group, and, um, they're pretty active.
And so that they use Slack to communicate.
Like, they do, like, a museum Monday.
Like, what's this happening here, like, every week? I mean Got it.
Got it.
And is there a membership fee how does that work? Is it just a fee to attend the conference? Is it an annual fee that gets you other things like access to the Slack group? How did you structure that? Yeah.
Um, right now, um, membership is free.
Um, and, uh, we made when when I was in the organization before, there was a site charge membership, but we found in the board that we were losing about $24,000 on people signing up for the membership just to get a discount on the conference's registration.
Right? And so we said, okay, we're not gonna do that.
We're just gonna make it free.
Um, and so now our our member base has increased significantly because of that.
Um, but, uh, yeah.
So, um, and and and that that also is another feature of the organization that I that I understand has been on again off again.
That it's been free has been a charge.
It's been free.
It's been a charge.
Right? But right now for us, it's free.
Well, that highlights something that's important, which is that, you know, when you're building a community and you're building a space, you know, especially one where, for example, it's it's dealing with computers and technology changes, It's not like there's one right answer, and that that's the right answer forever.
It's a it's an ongoing act of experimenting and figuring out what works and trying something and going, okay.
This is working.
And maybe this service in the past, and it's it's not anymore.
So, uh, but but you do charge for admission to the conference? Yes.
Yeah.
The the the conference is our is our primary revenue driver.
Um, so we, you know, we we we charge well, we have a a distributed, um, pricing structure now.
That, you know, that has things for smaller organizations, like, people, um, uh, for, if, uh, for profit organizations with, like, less than five people and nonprofit organizations with budgets of less than $10,000,000.
Right? Um, and, uh, we have, uh, student rates uh, for students to to come there that are very inexpensive.
In fact, the the the, um, every, every everybody who's paying into the conference is paying for students to go there to have the student rate.
Right? Um, but it but at but but I think that that's that's really great.
Like, it's it's it's $200 for a student rate versus $800 for a full price ticket.
But there's we also have a an early bird ticket that's, like, 650.
Got it.
So and this is a model I've seen with a lot of community For example, podcast movement, which is a a conference of podcasters, just the same thing where they have a Facebook group, uh, not a Slack channel, but the idea is that that is free, but it it allows it it basically, um, is like a funnel into, you know, people who are going to come to the, uh, in person event.
When it when it happens.
Yeah.
Do you if somebody's coming to the event for the first time, if they come into the conference for the first time, um, is there anything that you do to welcome them, you know, introduce them to the space, let them know what they're supposed to do there and how they're supposed to interact? I mean, what does that look like? Yeah.
As a matter of fact, at this last conference, um, because I I I have to actually, I gotta kinda tell you a little bit about, like, what's been happening with the organization for the last few years to understand kinda how we do that.
When I started going to the conference in 2016, it was all the bells and whistles.
It had, you know, um, tours in in the first day and, and, um, you know, uh, workshops and things like that before the the night, uh, uh, uh, event that we have at night.
Um, well, in 2022, um, we didn't have a conference, um, because it the landscape was wild after COVID.
Right? Um, and so, And and and we, uh, one of our members, uh, uh, um, gave us a pro bono study of the community.
And what they we found that the community wanted over almost anything was to come back in person.
Like, that was the the primary thing.
Because we've done a few, um, virtual conferences up to that point.
Um, and so we, um, we and and and the the financial position wasn't really strong, right, coming out 2022.
And that was the I came in as the treasurer I was looking at the cash flow statements and kinda panicking.
Um, but I've been there before we were having our our our our '23 to '3 conference.
I was like, oh, because I had seen the cash flow, and it's like, um, we need to get community partners to to support us.
Um, because registration doesn't open until after the cash flow thing, like the month after.
Right? But they did.
And then registration opened, and we're we're actually in a in a very comfortable place right now, which is great, you know.
Um, and Um, so, you know, even one year later, it was like, oh, this looks much more rosy than what happened.
But at the same time, um, we went through with this change that the the director, um, uh, uh, the the the, um, the president of the of the board at the time, um, wanted us to change the model of what we did, and that's what we're doing now.
So now instead of, like, going to a hotel and having the conference there, um, we go to a museum and have the conference there and get hotels near the the the museum.
So this last year, we were at the Walker Arts Center in Minneapolis.
Um, the year before that, uh, we were brought by the, um, Spencer Museum of Art at, um, uh, University of Kansas, but we were actually on, uh, in the, um, the alumni center across the street from the Museum.
Um, and the year before that, we were at the the Penn Museum at the University of Pennsylvania.
Yeah.
Um, I love the fact that it moves around from from place to place.
Uh, I wanna highlight something that you said there, which is that you've talked about how, you know, obviously, you were forced into certain circumstances by the pandemic.
We all were.
And then coming out of that, you decided to talk to your members, to get feedback from your members and to talk about what they need.
Um, can you talk about that? And do you have an ongoing formal process or informal process where you talk to your members? How do you have those feedback loops? How do you get that input from your members? Let them shape where it's gonna go? And how do you put it into action? Yeah.
Um, in addition to that, the the the, um, before, uh, the conference, they had a couple of, like, online town halls, um, that people could come into for a Zoom, um, and got information through through that as well.
And we also gather information from the surveys, post conference surveys.
Um, so we so we're we're always looking at what the membership wants.
Right? Um, and, um, yeah, and one of the the surprising things from the pro bono study was, like, they said, oh, yeah, in person conference.
And also, we want the mentorship program back.
And that was something that, um, we actually, um, are currently kind of working on, like, getting that rolling again.
Um, probably not as robust as it was before, but, like, starting to rebuild it is one of our, uh, priorities come in the in the coming years.
So I wanna make sure I I understand that.
When they say they want the membership program back, what what are they asking for specifically? No.
The mentorship program.
Oh, the mentorship.
Sorry.
Okay.
That makes sense.
In other words, they they really found value in younger members being paired up with with people who had more experience and could sort of share their wisdom.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or or also there were models where it's like, um, co mentors, right, who mentor each other.
Got it.
I I mean, I I love that.
So let me ask because this is one of the things that we often talk about in community, and I often think about this.
Like, I did martial arts in in college.
We're not good at it, but I didn't.
And and the younger people who come in, you know, you come in as a white belt, you know, and then you get to yell about or or whatever.
And and you're not good at this.
And you learn, and but you don't just learn from the sunset.
You learn from the more senior members who are also, you know, the black belts and the other people in the organization who who are running.
Do you find that in your own organization that there is a journey where people may come in at the beginning of their career or where they're just learning and frankly are, um, absorbing a lot from their, uh, membership Uh, and and, you know, getting stuff from other people.
And then there comes a point at which they become more senior.
They have more knowledge.
They have more experience, and they actually are giving a lot to some of the more junior members.
What does that look like in your organization? Yeah.
Um, well, I mean, it it's it's it depends on the people who come to the organization, and there are people who have been coming to the organization like myself for a long time.
Right? Some people for much longer.
Um, and, um, and and we're we're always like looking at, um, we we we always get a number of people who are there for the first time, right, or who are early career professionals.
Right? And because it's such a welcoming environment, we're always trying to, like, engage people in, in, in doing things.
That we're we're trying to get people to come back to the conference.
Right? That's the the one thing, because we always get people who come to the first time, but who may not come to the next time.
Right? Um, so, uh, but there but there's always, um, there there's always, like, that sort of uh, more established people and less established people in in the organization, in in their in their organizations.
Right? And so, and and we're all doing this thing together.
And sort of, it's great because it sort of evens the playing field for people who are coming in at the first time.
Um, and it's also a great thing where and and I hear there's another people that I I experience this too where you where you come to this thing and you're like, oh, I found my people.
You know? Yes.
I've seen that.
It's a heavy toxin.
Let me let me ask you that because uh, as I've talked to some event organizers, um, some of them are talking about a shift that they've seen where we used to go to events, particular conferences for content, for knowledge because I wanted to learn about x, y, and z.
And increasingly in the age of AI and Google and and YouTube and all that, we can get that knowledge in other places, and it's the connection that people are increasingly coming to events for.
Are you seeing a shift like that? I mean, what is the relationship between content and connection at your conference? Um, in our in the conference, it's, uh, it's really all about connection.
Right? It's all about, like, the the the connecting with each other.
Right? Um, they're having the time with each other.
In fact, there there was a, uh, a sort of one off little remark that, uh, our previous president, um, David or Newbury was saying when we were talking about, like, having the conference in a new location.
He was like, it's clear from this, um, this, uh, study that if we could have MCN in a parking lot and people would show up.
Right? Because, like, it doesn't really matter where we meet.
It's as long as we're meeting together and we're meeting with each other.
So I wanna, like, underscore what you just said there because so often when I talk to people who are thinking about building a community, the the first question they ask, you know, they're usually looking at digital platforms, uh, a circle or mining network, school, something like that, and they're going, which one do I use? And I and I often tell them if you get the right people together for the right reason, they'll meet in a dive bar.
You know, like you just said, they'll they'll meet in a parking lot.
And if you don't have the right people and they're not getting together for the right reason, it doesn't matter how great your digital platform is.
It doesn't matter if you're holding it in the Waldorf Astoria.
It's it's not gonna be a great event.
So what do you do, are do you have features? One of the things we sometimes talk about when we talk about events is where the seats are pointed, that there are portions of the event where you essentially have an audience.
The the chairs are all pointed in one direction towards a keynote speaker or, you know, maybe a panel discussion on a session.
Yeah.
And and that that's not the community building part.
The community building part is when the seats are pointed towards each other because people are networking or they're having coffee or they're having a meal together, Um, can you talk about what that looks like at your conference? You know, what are the portions where the chairs are all pointed in one direction? And then do you have portions where you are actively trying to get people to just talk to one another and build those relationships? Oh, absolutely.
I mean, it it also depends on, like, comfort, uh, conference session format.
Right? Um, and and what the what the needs are of what people are doing.
Sometimes it's it's to totally appropriate to have the, you know, here are the people presenting the thing for the audience.
Right? And that's what that is.
But for my part, I I, in fact, I gravitate a lot more to the thing where, like, we're in a room with, like, round tables so that everybody can sit together, and we can work on a thing.
And so, like, the last the session that I did, about the words of community online, we had, um, like, a giant easel post it notes, um, with these questions that people would take, um, post it notes and and put them on there so we could, like, tabulate how many people are at on what platform, um, for for the different types of questions that we had, the different prompts that we had.
Um, because we also we also sent out a survey to community before the conference, and then we have the session.
And then our team are we're writing up the results of that to share with the community.
Yeah.
So something that I I I I think is really important here is it's intentional.
Like, you're designing it that way.
You're designing, you know, there's a reason why you sit there and say, hey, we want the tables to be round.
It's Yeah.
So people can talk to each other.
Um, yeah.
But it doesn't necessarily need to be expensive.
I mean, post it notes.
Right? I mean, let's just go get some Sharpies from the dollar store and some post it notes.
Some so, yeah.
Sometimes that's the most effective thing you can do in that situation.
Right? It's it's like the it's sort of like, it creates the ease of of engagement.
Right? Like, we don't have to I mean, there there are ways to to, like, uh, answer those questions over, um, digital platforms, but there there's something around, like, where you're you're where you're when you're actually writing something down and you're and and and you're tabulating it together and you're having that discussion together that to my mind is just engages people in a in a more in in a in a richer way than just like, oh, this many people said that.
Right? On on a on a digital screen.
Right? So could I ask you about, uh, moments of serendipity? And what I mean is, uh, a moment where two people came together because they were at your conference or they were engaging, um, in your community, and something bigger grew out of that.
Is that something that you have seen? Yes.
Yeah.
Um, and as a matter of fact, um, one of the virtual conferences that we had, um, uh, in MCN twenty twenty one, um, featured a project that was called Digital Pacific, which is, uh, PASI, Fik, um, which is a super, super lightweight website, um, that just pulls APIs from other organizations that carry the cultural patrimony from, uh, uh, communities in the Pacific realm.
Right? Um, and the thing is that people who live there, um, don't have like a lot of easy connectivity.
They have phones and stuff like that, but they don't have a lot of a bandwidth for for those things.
So so the website itself is very, very lightweight.
It just pulls the APIs.
And and and so it's and and then it shows all the the stuff that these other museums are holding.
Well, we're I'm in this session with the person who's running this project.
And, um, and and another colleague of mine, um, uh, who was a previous board member, um, Nikil Chaveri, who works at the Art and Institute of Chicago.
And Nikil had just, um, shepherded his team the last few months in, um, creating their their new at the time, about three years ago, um, uh, or four years ago.
No.
I'm just not sure.
Um, but their their open API, um, that you could just go in and take their stuff and do it and reuse it and mix it and do whatever you want.
And right away, people were doing that.
Right? And in that session, um, Nikil said, oh, this is great.
We just have our open APIs and and the person running the the the presentation was like, Oh, uh, can you give it that? It's like, yeah, gave it to him in the chat linked to it.
Boom.
Done.
And then that connects that these communities in The Pacific with all of this cultural patrimony that that, um, because, like, I'm certain we have stuff of yours.
In our museum.
Right? And it was, like, magic.
And, like, watching that happen.
I was, like, wait, what just happened? So so so wait.
I I I wanna make sure I understand what we're talking about here.
Essentially, because I don't use words like cultural patrimony all the time.
I wanna make sure I understand what that is.
I mean, that means that there are, um, things in one museum that belong to another culture.
Is that what we're talking about? Yes.
Oh, yeah.
That's that's, like, endemic to the whole thing.
Yeah.
Got it.
And and the way they found out and they co connected across the globe because of this because this was happening.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
Like, and and and and just and and that connection, I saw the connection happen.
It you know? It's it's magic when you see that happen.
Isn't it? It's like yeah.
It really was because he was like, oh my god.
What just happened? I I love those moments.
Um, and and look, you know, There there's luck to them.
Right? I mean, it is serendipity.
There's a certain amount of it just has to be, you know, a roll of the dice to a certain extent, but you can create conditions under which it's more likely to happen.
Can engineer that serendipity in in the hopes that moments like that come up.
Let me ask how guarantee it, but Right.
Yeah.
But but but you can increase the chances.
Um, let me ask about how you are measuring the success of this community.
Do you have metric thing you look at? Um, is it just ticket sales? You do these surveys? Is there, like, a net promoter score or something? What are you looking at? Yeah.
We look we we look we look at registrations, um, um, of course, for the conference, um, but we also look at, um, post, uh, the post experience survey.
And we we really pay close attention to that and and things that are working, things that could be better, you know, the things to consider for the future.
Um, that's every conference.
Oh, and and within the conference, actually, they they had, um, surveys for every session.
And so we had results from that too for for all the presenters to say like, babe, this is what people thought of your session.
Got it.
So it sounds like you have both quantitative and qualitative metrics that you're looking at.
Yes.
When you're when you're evaluating whether it's, uh, you know, whether it's working or not.
Um, let me ask you what last you need to have both.
You you you you can't you can't rely on one or not the other.
Like, you have to have quantitative and qualitative information because they're they're they're asking two different questions.
Quant is how many something is.
Right? Cultative is why, how? And so you you you can't have the why and how without how many and you can't have how many without why and how.
Right.
Right.
Um, let me ask you one last question here.
Talk to somebody who, you know, you've been doing this a while.
Talk to somebody who was thinking about launching a community for the first time.
What advice would you give to them? Uh, well, I think part of the reason why this community, um, rallies around this is because it's a mission based organization.
It's a nonprofit.
Right? And I I, like, I believe in the mission of of this because I see it in the values of of what we do.
Right? Um, and Yeah.
And I and and I'm not the only person who believes in it.
Like, a lot of people believe in this mission.
That's why they do this.
That's why we keep getting new board members, right, who wanna who wanna make this thing work.
Right? Um, yeah, it, uh, And and it it's not surprising to me because when when I started, um, volunteering for this organization, I was I was doing, um, like, on-site volunteering.
At the time, you could get free registration for doing that.
Um, and, Yeah.
And then I was, like, on the program committee for a while, um, and then I chaired the program for MCN twenty twenty one online, um, and then I was burnt out, um, and I said no more stuff.
And, But then the board call came along.
And I was like, uh, too, as before it was due, I was, like, looking at the, like, the things that we want, the, the bullet points that things were looking at.
And I was, like, I can do definitely those two with maybe the third one.
And so they uh, asking to be on the board.
And they said, can you be treasurer? See, because you can read financial statements.
And I said, yeah.
Okay.
Fine.
Well, I I think that's so important because what you're saying here is that if people really believe in the mission, that they will step up and they will Yeah.
Do stuff quite often voluntarily.
They will they will say they will they will pay money to go to it.
Yeah.
You know, you will get support from your community members.
This year, we, like, shout mattered our goal for community support, um, like, which was kind of amazing.
We really, like, uh, we had a lot of community support, which was actually kind of kind of key, um, because, uh, with the current govern well, well, the the the government's back up and running now, but but during the conference, the government would have shut down.
And so a lot of colleagues from some zoning institution couldn't go, and that's, like, a good 50 some odd people.
And so our registration was kind of flat from last year to this year, but we had so much community support that that helps the organization stay on financial authority.
Yeah.
Uh, yeah.
I I think this is so important because, you know, a lot of people think that money is the thing that always motivates people.
And and in community, in particular, when when it's a mission that people believe in, and you've really figured out what your members need and what you want and how to serve them well, um, people will step up and and contribute and, uh, being part of it.
And and that's one of the things I teach in in in in in in the courses that I teach is when, um, when when you're really adhering to your mission, you you people come to your thing.
They believe in it.
They provide support for it.
They give you money to do it.
Like, it's but but if if it's really clear and you're really um, um, doing the work of the mission, that will happen.
And and I I I have a really good example of it.
Yeah.
Well, I love it.
That's fantastic.
Max, if people wanna learn more about the MCN, the museum computer network, where can they go? Mcn.
edu.
It was pretty simple.
Pretty easy.
Uh, thank you so much.
I really appreciate this.
This is such a fantastic, uh, example of a community, and I love that it, uh, even though it's about computers, it it almost predates the internet.
Right.
Um, it's absolutely fantastic.
So thank you very much, and and thank you for sharing the story